Gay Commitment

Rivalry Side A | Other | Living

Non Gay Commitment

Rivalry Side B | Other | Living

Should gays be allowed to have marriage, civil union or other commitment equal to marriage?

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Posted by in Other / Living on 5/23/09
Debate Leaders
  1. DollyFan (8 votes) Validated Ego
  1. mama kaz (2 votes)
  1. madhollywood (2 votes)
  1. The Boss (1 votes)
  1. Tomegun (1 votes)

Side A fans: (22)

Neutral Fans: (0)


Side A Comment

DollyFan - 8/2/09 @ 12:54 AM: Validated Ego
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Mike and I are are exactly one month away from 19 years together! Sure wish we could make it legal!

Side A Comment

DollyFan - 7/7/09 @ 10:09 AM: Validated Ego
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I hope it does. I can't stand to hear a gay friend say something about blacks. I'm just like "Why would you want to discriminate against someone when you know how it feels to be discriminated against?" I guess some people can't put 2 and 2 together.

Side A Comment

DollyFan - 7/5/09 @ 9:11 AM: Validated Ego
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People forget that when one is of a minority, they can usually get back home and have the support of their family. If someone is getting beat up for being black, their siblings and parents understand what they are going through because they are black. If a Jewish child comes home crying because classmates made fun of them, the parents can understand that because they are Jewish as well.

Most gay children are not out to their parents/family and may get bullied at school but can't come home and get support from their family because their family is not in the minority group with them, so the child usually has no place to turn for support and comfort. Lots of gay adults are not out and have to still try to get through life without their family's support. Lots of gay adults ARE out and have to try to get through life without family support and understanding.

That is one reason gays call each other family. Some families may not love and care about their gay sons, daughters, uncles, mothers, etc. That makes gays rely on other gays and make a new "family". That's one reason gays want some sort of family recognition.

It just doesn't make sense to me that a straight person can't figure out why I have been with someone for almost 20 years and that I get mad that I can't have a recognized relationship with equal rights and benefits. How would a straight person feel to be with a loved one for 20 years and the government tells you you're a second class citizen and are considered a single person because the government doesn't recognize you as a couple?
The Boss - 7/5/09 @ 9:24 AM: Ally | Side A
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You're comment should hopefully give a lot of people something to think about, especially those who have faced discrimination themselves.

Side A Comment

mama kaz - 6/6/09 @ 5:54 PM:
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Mav, let me know when and where and I'll be there with bells on! Gay couples should have some kind of LEGAL ceremony or license that will allow them to have health benefits and the ability to make decisions for each other if health issues arise. If you've managed to stay with the same person for years that should count as a legal relationship regardless of your gender. We don't have to call it marriage, it could be called something else. Then everyone should be happy.
DollyFan - 6/6/09 @ 9:12 PM: Ally | Side A
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Mama Kaz, thank you and know that you're family would be invited if that ever becomes legal for Mike and I. I saw that the governor of New Hampshire signed into law, given to him by the state legislature, the right for same-sex couples to legally become a union in that state. I guess that's 6 states that now allow that. Just 44 more states to go!
cutie122403 - 6/7/09 @ 12:50 AM: Ally | Side A
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Count me in. I will be there to support them.
DollyFan - 6/7/09 @ 5:19 PM: Ally | Side A
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Thanks, cutie! You know you'd be invited too!
DollyFan - 6/13/09 @ 9:42 AM: Ally | Side A
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Mama Kaz: I forgot to mention---I'd prefer you not "be there with bells on". That would attract attention away from me! LOL

Side B Comment

ksawyer - 6/6/09 @ 12:24 PM:
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Regardless if it's recognition or involvement, it still seems, to me at least, that you (meaning the gay community) only wants 'something' from the government if it will benefit you personally. Just an observation.
DollyFan - 6/6/09 @ 9:10 PM: Rival | Side A
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You're just lumping gays as one. You aren't, appearantly, in the gay community but you believe you know us. You say "the gay community only wants 'something' from the government if it will benefit you personally." You obviously don't know me or my friends. We do NOT want anything from the government except to be treated EQUALLY. You already receive the from the government but appear to look down on gays for wanting the same thing from the same government.
ksawyer - 6/8/09 @ 7:57 PM: Ally | Side B
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Mav, I wanted to reply to you, but there was not a link under your comment, so I'll reply under me.

Let me clarify - I do not look down on anyone nor do I judge anyone because I don't want it done to me. And you're right, I don't know you so how could I be talking about you personally? I'm just an observer giving, what I feel, is an objective opinion on a topic that was presented.

Now, having said all of that, and because I believe marriage is between a man and woman, and that's it, if a gay commitment is called something else, you probably wouldn't hear a peep from me. Keep in mind, probably being the key word.....
DollyFan - 6/9/09 @ 9:20 AM: Rival | Side A
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ksawyer, you just hadn't clarified that you would be okay with a gay union, if it's not called marriage. You simply said you theought marriage should only be between a man and a woman. Then you went on to state things like people wanting things from the government, making it appear as thought you believed gays want something 'special'. That made me respond, so that people realize we don't want to be 'special' we want to be equal and have the same rights that are afforded to our brothers and sisters, cousins, friends and co-workers.

Please don't feel as if I was trying to attack you, as I was not. I was only trying to help you see my view as a gay man in a relationship of 18 years and what I'm missing out on by my government treating me differently than say, how they treat you. It sometimes is just hard to communicate with only written words, without tone of voice, inflections, etc. Thanks for your participation in the rivalries on here.

Side B Comment

ksawyer - 6/6/09 @ 1:40 AM:
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I am of the belief that marriage is (and should remain) between a man and a woman. It's funny to me to hear some of the comments. On one hand, there are those who don't want the government involved in their lives at all, but when it comes to marriage between the same sex, there are those who are all for the government getting involved. Very interesting to me.
DollyFan - 6/6/09 @ 8:05 AM: Rival | Side A
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We aren't wanting the government "involved". We're wanting the government to RECOGNIZE us as equal. There is a huge difference.

Side A Comment

J - 6/6/09 @ 1:30 AM:
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Thanks for the awesome comments everyone. This gives me hope for my future. Loving someone and not being recognized by your government is heartbreaking and unfair. Besides, gays should be allowed to be in miserable marriages (and divorces) just like the rest of you. Just kidding.

Side A Comment

DollyFan - 5/31/09 @ 9:47 AM: Validated Ego
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The money would affect the economy big time. 18,000 gay couples got married in the short amount of time it was legal in CA. Can you imagine how many gay/lesbian couples would get married across the whole country, if it were legal.

And Mama, Kaz, you could come to our Civil Union (or whatever the ceremony gets called) and have some fun! I can't imagine what it would feel like to be with Mike as a legal partner after almost 19 years together but I know it would be an awesome day!!!

Side A Comment

Natalie - 5/29/09 @ 8:12 PM:
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They don't affect me in the least...let them be happy...plus the money will help the economy.

Side A Comment

cutie122403 - 5/28/09 @ 11:50 PM:
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Gay people are human beings like everyone else. Yes, I do think they should come up with there own ceremony but they should have legal rights as everyone else. They shouldn't be treated any differently. I agree with J they probably wouldn't want it called "marriage" anyway. I couldn't imagine loving someone and not being able to "be" with them.

Side A Comment

mama kaz - 5/28/09 @ 10:06 PM:
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I think gays should be able to have civil unions that provide legal protection and health benefits to their partners. I don't like the idea of re defining marriage but I do like the idea mentioned above of getting gays to come up with something unique that would be similar to marriage between a man and a woman that would give them legal rights etc.. I would push my representatives to vote for something like that and would support it. I hope if it does happen that I will get invited to these ceremonies because all the gay guys I know are FUN!!!!! Hint.. hint...

Side A Comment

big ben - 5/28/09 @ 9:30 PM:
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I will start saying that I do not agree with gay marriage personally. Than why am I supporting it? The main reason is the fact that I have realized over the last year that the constitution is very important to me. The patriot act is stripping this document, congress is going after the 2nd ammendment on many fronts, the cyber bullying act (miley cyrus is promoting this bill which will give the feds the right to charge anyone with a FELONY if someone else online finds something offensive from anyone who posts the message!), and you can find many examples of 4th ammendment right violations on youtube. Just today an ambulance was pulled over with a heart attack victim by a state trooper in Oklahoma. The cops seem to be getting away with this so far. You can also youtube a arizona preacher and see a youtube of a preacher who was nearly beaten to death becaue he asked for a search warrant before he would let marines search his car at a checkpoint. I am ready to defend this constitution and so I would be a hypocrite if I told gays what their rights were with marriage.

Side A Comment

J - 5/27/09 @ 11:02 PM:
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Well, I just want the same rights as any straight person. It doesn't matter what it's called. We are way too diverse of a group of people to have it called marriage. I don't think the gay community would want it to be called marriage anyway.

Love is love. No matter who you feel it for. I just have never been able to understand why someone would judge me for loving someone else. Isn't there isn't intolerance and hate in this world, why be against someone who loves?

Mr. Kazinec, as wierd as it may seem I understand your P.O.V. and kind of agree with it. Very scary.

Side A Comment

Ripi - 5/27/09 @ 4:53 AM:
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Live and let live. Equality for all.

Side A Comment

Jeff - 5/26/09 @ 5:07 PM:
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I know what the bible says on this, but I think If you love someone if it be a man or woman and that love is deep enough to make that commetment to each other then by all mean they should be able to marry, it comes down to whats the diffrence between same sex marrage then being with someone of another Nationality why not ban that as well? it all comes down to the Goverment does what the goverment wants too and damn the people its suppose to work for which is us its like cyberanto say "Equality for all people in this world!" as long as it suites the Goverment.
Tomegun - 6/3/09 @ 1:01 AM: Ally | Side A
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Are you serious? This really isn't the rivalry for this, but comparing this to nationalities being together is borderline racist to me. This discussion is about sex, not where someone comes from or the color of their skin.
DollyFan - 6/6/09 @ 8:03 AM: Ally | Side A
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It was just 60 years ago that it would have been illegal for my Mom (Caucasian) to be married to my stepfather (African American). That is a different situation but, yet, the same fight as this issue. There is no reason at all that a government should not recognize a marriage between two people, no matter who the two people are. Our government is here for and by the people. The government is not here to push religious beliefs.

Side A Comment

Tomegun - 5/26/09 @ 4:19 AM:
1
I can agree with equality and calling a relationship such as this something. However, I don't think it should be called marriage and personally I don't agree with it. My feelings about it will NOT force me to commit a crime against someone or say mean things.

Side A Comment

cyberanto - 5/25/09 @ 9:07 PM:
1
Equality for all people in this world!

Side A Comment

madhollywood - 5/25/09 @ 7:53 PM:
2
A contractual relationships between two willing parties should be recognized period, but I don't think we have to nor should we call it marriage.

Side A Comment

DollyFan - 5/25/09 @ 11:19 AM: Validated Ego
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Hey, little sister (smartypants). Thanks for believing I should have equal rights! I love you! Thanks for joining this web site. The site belongs to Jason's sister and brother-in-law.

Side A Comment

DollyFan - 5/24/09 @ 3:19 PM: Validated Ego
2
That's what I mean. I don't care if it's called a marriage, civil union or whatever else someone comes up with; as long as it comes with all of the same benefits and rights that are afforded to straight couples who get married.

I know that some churches sanctify gay marriage and that is fine for those who are in those churches and those who choose to get married in those churches. I only ask for equality in the eyes of our government. There are a lot of things that straights AND gays do in their lives that the church doesn't believe in. That is something we each have to face and deal with in our own lives with God, spirit, religion, etc. (whatever you may believe), since you can believe what you want in this free country.

Being in a relationship with someone you love, respect, trust, desire, believe in, etc. only makes you a better person. Making our citizens equal and being a better person because of being recognized in our society means it is a good thing for our government to recognize. Being in a relationship with my same-sex partner since 1990 (and knowing I will be with him until the day I die) makes me want a legally recognized union.
The Boss - 5/24/09 @ 4:37 PM: Ally | Side A
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I can't argue or add anything to your comment and you make an great point that we ALL do things that waiver from our religious rules, commandments, expectations, and we certainly will have to account for those on our own when the time comes.
tbatrhea - 5/26/09 @ 9:48 PM: Ally | Side A
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sorry about the negative vote i hit the wrong button, I did not what the arrows were for. I of course vote for it
The Boss - 5/26/09 @ 10:11 PM: Ally | Side A
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tbatrhea,
I fixed the vote for you. Thanks for participating.

Side A Comment

The Boss - 5/24/09 @ 8:32 AM:
1
My answer may partially surprise you. I've had this very conversation with my openly gay brother-in-law and my answer has not wavered.

Let's get the pertinent information out of the way. I'm a straight male who has been married for almost four years. I'm also what I would consider somewhere between libertarian and conservative politically(I know, I'm confused as well).

In regards to marriage my answer would be no but let's look a little deeper on how I form that immediate response. I'm far from super christian but I honestly believe most of the issues the masses have with gay marriage is the so called hijacking of the marriage ceremony. Would that not mean there biggest problem is with the symbolism of the event? The bride, the groom, the dress, the tux, the flowers, the ceremony, the bible, etc...

Where do I stand? Should gays be treated any different in the eyes of our government? No. Should they lose out on tax rights (not going to matter soon as we'll all be taxed to death by Obama) and visitation rights in hospitals, etc...? No! I had my wife on my insurance as a domestic partner before we got married and I was taxed through the roof for covering her. I may be wrong but I believe they added all employer costs for medical insurance to our total taxable income which killed us on taxes.

You guys/gals are gay for goodness sake (sarcasm pointed at creativity - You dress far better than straight guys). Get creative. Get the entire gay community together, develop your own unique ceremony and lobby Washington (everyone else does it) to allow your ceremony to be represented as a civil union with no distinguishable difference in the governments eyes between a gay couple and married couple. Just stay away from the religious ceremony.

That's my two cents.


Side A Comment

DollyFan - 5/24/09 @ 12:11 AM: Validated Ego
2
I believe that the United States was set up for equality for all, when our Founding Fathers wrote the US Constitution, which is a document that many of us hold extremely dear. I then do not understand why gays are not allowed to have a recognized union of some sort.

I believe that church beliefs should not have to be changed for gays to have a marriage, civil union or whatever it will end up being called. The government can not cause religion to change their beliefs. But our government is here for all citizens and all citizens should be treated fairly and have ALL of the same rights and freedoms. Therefore, the US government should allow gay marriage (or whatever you want to name it). I would not care if my union was recognized by the church or not. But I should be allowed to have a union that is recognized by my government.

There are MANY rights that straight couples gain by a union and gays are left out of these rights, simply by not being allowed to marry. Partner insurance, hospital visitation, inheritance without taxation, are but a few. I pay taxes. I provide jobs. I donate to charities. I do these things and more just like most citizens of this great country. I am then treated like a second class citizen. Hardly seems fair.
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