"Disagreeing has never been so much fun!"
Sign of Things to Come for 2010
Insignificant - Just a Few Elections
Will the outcome of the elections in New Jersey, New York (23rd), and Virginia be a sign of things to come in 2010?
Neutral Fans: (0)
Side A Comment
mama kaz - 12/7/09 @ 6:16 PM:
Electing a black president was a great moment for our country. I was very impressed with Obama until I started studying his past. I couldn't find anything in his short list of accomplishments that made me believe that he was qualified to lead our country. There have been many presidential candidates through the years that I did not vote for because I didn't like what they stood for. I am sick and tired of being called a racist for not voting for Obama and for speaking out against him. Some of the best friends I ever had were black including a girl who was my bridesmaid. I am well aware that racism exists. I have an aunt who is a racist and she will look you in the eye and say she doesn't like blacks. She makes me sick. However, racism is not limited to whites view of blacks. There are a lot of people in this country who hate the wealthy because they have more. Isn't that a type of racism? There are those who hate others because of their religion. Christians are often ridiculed for their view on abortion and morality. Gays face discrimination every day. Again, racism? My kids could not get loans for college because they are white. I lost out on great jobs because of affirmative action and putting under qualified people into jobs they can't handle does nothing more than keep them down. I did see the tears of joy and elation at the election of a black president but unfortunately some of the excitement had to do with what the government was going to do for them. I saw people proclaiming that Obama was going to pay their house payments, put gas in their car, etc... I remember one of the greatest moments in history as being John Kennedy telling us to "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." We have veered so far from this thinking that I don't think we'll ever get back. We do not help people by making them dependent on government. I do not believe it is everyone's God given right to own a home, have the best health care for free, or anything else that should require hard work and diligence to obtain. I went to work with an IV bag hanging over my desk for months because I had to in order to keep my private health insurance. Teaching people that they can have all of this by just taking from those who have more is worse than racism and that's exactly what our present government is doing. How can you tell people they can accomplish great things when you make it possible for them to live a mediocre life? I think the recent elections are a sign that people are beginning to realize what's happening. I just hope it's not too late.
Tomegun - 12/9/09 @ 11:05 AM:
Ally | Side A
Prejudice is defined as an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge.
Racism is defined as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Although I appreciate, and agree for the most part, with what you are saying, we are talking about two different things when we bring religion, sexuality, etc. into the discussion. Also, you will always have people who take advantage of government programs. Do you think those people are predominantly black?
Now, lets focus on racism. You should be furious that you lost out on jobs and your kids were denied loans. But you should be upset at racism and the people who made it a part of our every day lives. If you think affirmative action is wrong, you should be !$@#@& at the people who made it necessary. If you think about it, pointing a finger at the people who benefit from it does nothing more than continue the wrongful actions. It isn't their fault. If they could compete on truly equal ground, let the competition begin! But if we look at the situation honestly racism prevents that competition.
Can you directly address the statement you made about people voting based on the color of the candidate? I would hazard a guess and say this statement was a rarity before a black man was president. Even when Jesse Jackson ran for president. As a black man, I have a built in recognition of statements and acts that aren't in line with true equality and this tripped that sense. Although Ryan acknowledged it, I still find it sad that nobody has stepped up and said, "Hey, he is a white president too." A drop of black makes him black in America and that is wrong. Black people don't push someone away because they aren't 100% black, but it seems like whites do. Why?
Can you at least agree that our government could not afford to continue with business as usual? I don't agree with everything that Obama does and your research has obviously uncovered something that indicates you don't think he is qualified. But, maybe what we need is someone who isn't polished at manuevering around politically. Remember, I don't like everything that is going on either, but I also don't think he is an idiot like the last guy. My feelings about Bush have nothing to do with race or political parties. My feelings toward Bush have to do with my ability to recognize someone who is an idiot.
Do you think the Republicans pushed Palin on McCain (I think he was forced to accept her)to get votes based on her looks and gender? I certainly do because that is part of the way things are done in the world.
Racism is defined as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Although I appreciate, and agree for the most part, with what you are saying, we are talking about two different things when we bring religion, sexuality, etc. into the discussion. Also, you will always have people who take advantage of government programs. Do you think those people are predominantly black?
Now, lets focus on racism. You should be furious that you lost out on jobs and your kids were denied loans. But you should be upset at racism and the people who made it a part of our every day lives. If you think affirmative action is wrong, you should be !$@#@& at the people who made it necessary. If you think about it, pointing a finger at the people who benefit from it does nothing more than continue the wrongful actions. It isn't their fault. If they could compete on truly equal ground, let the competition begin! But if we look at the situation honestly racism prevents that competition.
Can you directly address the statement you made about people voting based on the color of the candidate? I would hazard a guess and say this statement was a rarity before a black man was president. Even when Jesse Jackson ran for president. As a black man, I have a built in recognition of statements and acts that aren't in line with true equality and this tripped that sense. Although Ryan acknowledged it, I still find it sad that nobody has stepped up and said, "Hey, he is a white president too." A drop of black makes him black in America and that is wrong. Black people don't push someone away because they aren't 100% black, but it seems like whites do. Why?
Can you at least agree that our government could not afford to continue with business as usual? I don't agree with everything that Obama does and your research has obviously uncovered something that indicates you don't think he is qualified. But, maybe what we need is someone who isn't polished at manuevering around politically. Remember, I don't like everything that is going on either, but I also don't think he is an idiot like the last guy. My feelings about Bush have nothing to do with race or political parties. My feelings toward Bush have to do with my ability to recognize someone who is an idiot.
Do you think the Republicans pushed Palin on McCain (I think he was forced to accept her)to get votes based on her looks and gender? I certainly do because that is part of the way things are done in the world.
Side A Comment
mama kaz - 12/6/09 @ 12:16 PM:
We have had plenty of mediocre and even terrible presidents. The color of skin should be irrelevant in everything. If I'm having surgery I want the best surgeon and I don't care what race or religion he is. The same applies to president. This discussion is proof that for many people there are new standards for disagreeing with the president. My comment was directed at everyone who votes. We must educate ourselves before going out to vote. I talk to people every day who say they voted for Obama based on the media package that was presented. They believed what he said he would do instead of looking at what he has done in the past. Those who did look at his past were ridiculed by the media. I have gone to tea parties and even to Washington DC and have seen myself portrayed as a dining room table, idiot, racist, uninformed, and worse. If we vote for a candidate based on ANYTHING other than qualifications and their past accomplishments we are making a huge mistake. This includes skin color and of course this is the first time this has come up because it's the first time we've had a president who wasn't "white". I can give you a long list of past presidents who I strongly disliked and disagreed with. This is nothing new.
Tomegun - 12/7/09 @ 2:54 PM:
Ally | Side A
I would really like to think we could look at this whole thing intelligently. Like you admitted, this wasn't an issue when other presidents were elected - nobody metioned voting and color of skin. Additionally, Obama is as much a white president as he is black. I'm glad Ryan agreed with me about how race is looked at in America. One ounce of something other than white makes a person the other. That is racist and it has no doubt her many mothers, fathers, sons and daughters.
One thing you should be sensitive to is why people turned out to vote. First of all, the same amount of people could have turned out for Jesse Jackson, but they knew he was an idiot. Secondly, there are/were people who have shed blood and lost relatives throughout their lives and finally had an opportunity to vote for someone that (half) looked like them. I'm sure it is hard to imagine, but new possibilities, hopes and dreams were realized in November 2008. Have you ever seen so many people crying tears of joy following an election? That is what racism will do. That is what hundreds of years of being told you can't do something, aren't good enough and will never do things will do. I'm naturally apprehensive, but being apprehensive about racism is something that comes natural. I don't know if I can ever say I've met someone who looked me in my eye and told me they didn't like black people, but I would be a fool if I thought I've never come across racists.
If you (not directed at anyone) think it is wrong that someone got elected because black folks turned out to vote, welcome to how it has been for blacks for hundreds of years. I would challenge anyone who has a problem with it to take action. Take action against racism. I'm talking about the racism that people want to deny, the racism people want to shun and the racism that caused things like affirmative action to be a necessity in the first place.
Good talk.
One thing you should be sensitive to is why people turned out to vote. First of all, the same amount of people could have turned out for Jesse Jackson, but they knew he was an idiot. Secondly, there are/were people who have shed blood and lost relatives throughout their lives and finally had an opportunity to vote for someone that (half) looked like them. I'm sure it is hard to imagine, but new possibilities, hopes and dreams were realized in November 2008. Have you ever seen so many people crying tears of joy following an election? That is what racism will do. That is what hundreds of years of being told you can't do something, aren't good enough and will never do things will do. I'm naturally apprehensive, but being apprehensive about racism is something that comes natural. I don't know if I can ever say I've met someone who looked me in my eye and told me they didn't like black people, but I would be a fool if I thought I've never come across racists.
If you (not directed at anyone) think it is wrong that someone got elected because black folks turned out to vote, welcome to how it has been for blacks for hundreds of years. I would challenge anyone who has a problem with it to take action. Take action against racism. I'm talking about the racism that people want to deny, the racism people want to shun and the racism that caused things like affirmative action to be a necessity in the first place.
Good talk.
Side A Comment
Tomegun - 12/4/09 @ 9:25 AM:
Ryan, you are absolutely right, BUT when a white candidate was winning this statement wasn't made. So the group of people is obviously the one who helped a black man become president. At least it is obvious to me. I would hope that you could pause for a second and consider how that looks to other people.
Also, I have to say Obama could be considered a white president too. I think the fact that no group of people have stood up to say he is a white president says something about how skin color is looked at in America.
Also, I have to say Obama could be considered a white president too. I think the fact that no group of people have stood up to say he is a white president says something about how skin color is looked at in America.
Ryan Kazinec - 12/4/09 @ 5:35 PM:
Ally | Side A
I have heard people refer to him as white but it's immediately dismissed because of his skin color and as you said the way skin color is looked at.
I do understand what you are saying to some degree BUT we have to face reality that up until now race has never been considered. Why? Well the Presidents have all been rich (usually rich) white men. When nearly every serious candidate up until recently has been white there has not been any contrast to compare voters reasoning regarding race.
Here's what I can tell you about myself. I have NEVER voted for or against someone based on their skin color, nor will I ever. I have however been an ignorant voter and voted for a letter next to a name (Republican or Democrat) because I was lazy and didn't take the time to research the candidates. I'd have to say age (maturity) was partially to blame but regardless of my reasoning I will never go into a voting booth again without knowing at a bare minimum the voting records of each one of the candidates. I really hope the days of whoever has the best campaign attack ads wins is over.
I do understand what you are saying to some degree BUT we have to face reality that up until now race has never been considered. Why? Well the Presidents have all been rich (usually rich) white men. When nearly every serious candidate up until recently has been white there has not been any contrast to compare voters reasoning regarding race.
Here's what I can tell you about myself. I have NEVER voted for or against someone based on their skin color, nor will I ever. I have however been an ignorant voter and voted for a letter next to a name (Republican or Democrat) because I was lazy and didn't take the time to research the candidates. I'd have to say age (maturity) was partially to blame but regardless of my reasoning I will never go into a voting booth again without knowing at a bare minimum the voting records of each one of the candidates. I really hope the days of whoever has the best campaign attack ads wins is over.
Side A Comment
mama kaz - 11/17/09 @ 2:56 PM:
My advice for the 2010 election is this. Don't vote down party lines and if you are not willing to study the record of each candidate then stay home and don't vote at all. We cannot vote based on party, skin color, or anything else that doesn't matter. Let's vote for people who want the best for us and our amazing country. Lets vote for people who show some common sense. We must also be on guard for voter fraud. I predict we will see more corruption and fraud in the next election than this country has ever seen. I don't trust either side and believe both sides are equally capable of corruption. Stop being lazy and apathetic. Educate your self because our future depends on it.
Tomegun - 11/28/09 @ 12:24 AM:
Ally | Side A
Wow, I really wonder if a comment about voting based on skin color would have ever been made BEFORE someone black was president.
I think it is dumb that part of race relations is denial.
I think it is dumb that part of race relations is denial.
Ryan Kazinec - 12/1/09 @ 4:50 PM:
Ally | Side A
You'd be pressed to find anyone with an ounce of intelligence that would deny there was a group of people who voted against Obama because he's a black man but it's just as obvious that there was a group of people who voted for Obama because he's a black man. Both groups are equally ignorant (One of which is based on hate and is understandably worse) because their votes were cast on skin color and not candidate substance.
The comment above doesn't imply which group of people need to think before they vote, simply that we all need to think, research, and review things such as voting records when deciding who to vote for. So basically don't be an ignorant voter.
I have a hard time seeing the denial; maybe I'm in denial about the denial? Frankly it doesn't matter how well thought out your vote is if you have two horrible candidates to choose from which brings me to my next point. Casting a vote is no longer enough, we all have to get involved. If deadbeats keep winning the primaries we have no hope.
The comment above doesn't imply which group of people need to think before they vote, simply that we all need to think, research, and review things such as voting records when deciding who to vote for. So basically don't be an ignorant voter.
I have a hard time seeing the denial; maybe I'm in denial about the denial? Frankly it doesn't matter how well thought out your vote is if you have two horrible candidates to choose from which brings me to my next point. Casting a vote is no longer enough, we all have to get involved. If deadbeats keep winning the primaries we have no hope.
Side A Comment
mama kaz - 11/4/09 @ 3:20 PM:
It's a good sign that people are beginning to question what is going on in our country.
