"Disagreeing has never been so much fun!"
President Obama Should Apologize
Sgt. James Crowley Should Apologize
Who should apologize? Obama for saying "Stupidly" about the officers actions or Crowley for arresting a black scholar?
Debate Leaders
Tomegun
(1 votes)
Neutral Fans: (0)
Side A Comment
mama kaz - 8/29/09 @ 10:56 PM:
We definitely have double standards. I always taught my kids that if it isn't worth fighting for it isn't worth getting. I think the harder you have to fight for something the more you appreciate it when you succeed. In this country we are now teaching people that they shouldn't have to fight for anything. Entitlement is everywhere. What ever happened to hard work and responsibility?
Side A Comment
Sarah Forester - 8/10/09 @ 11:06 PM:
I am so tired of any "black" and "white conflict turning into a racist war. SICK and TIRED! people make their own history! I truely believe having a "1/2 black" president is actually making this worse. D**@N right he should apologize. If Bush had made the same comment Obama did you all would have him down on his knees asking for forgiveness.
Side B Comment
DollyFan - 8/10/09 @ 7:45 PM:
Equality SHOULD be applied in ALL matters but it isn't. I believe that in this country anyone can succeed. BUT, everyone has different circumstances and some have to work harder than others. We all have the same opportunities it's just that some have to work twice ot three times as hard as some others.
Side A Comment
mama kaz - 8/10/09 @ 5:31 PM:
Quotas work both ways. My kids couldn't qualify for any financial aid because they are white. I've lost out on jobs because they had to bring in a minority to meet their quotas. I stand by my statement that in this country anyone can succeed. I'm also saying that equality should be applied in all matters, including the law.
Side A Comment
mama kaz - 8/6/09 @ 8:01 PM:
I think we are missing the point. The professor was arrested for refusing to cooperate with a police officer. Why should the cop have to apologize for doing his job? You are right about my situation because if the cop had been black and the professor white, we wouldn't even be having this discussion and I can guarantee the charges would not have been dropped. That's not fair. Being black should not excuse anyone from obeying the law. That kind of thinking just takes us all backwards. In this country we all have a chance to succeed if we work hard enough.
Tomegun - 8/7/09 @ 1:33 AM:
Rival | Side B
"In this country we all have a chance to succeed if we work hard enough."
Uh, what country are you living in? I can see how you may not understand this, but no we don't all have a chance. For every Obama, Bob Johnson, Johnny Cochran, etc. there are probably tens of thousands who could not do whatever they want.
Two examples. In the Air Force, it is often discussed how a black man can make it to E7, but most stop there. You know why? Because making E8 and E9 involve board scores - someone forming their own opinion or having their opinion formed by someone calling in a favor.
Example two. There are many black and minority college basketball officials across the country - I've met many of them personally. You will not see them on TV every Saturday because many conferences have an unwritten quota. Also, I have had people (who don't know each other) talk about someone being a "bald, angry black man" and how coaches are intimidated by them. This isn't just me and my experience; this is happening to my friends and other black and Asian officials I know. Oh, and guess who makes up most of those college players you see on TV every Saturday during the season?
Conversations like this are starting to weigh heavily on me. On one hand, I feel like I have to speak up because the idea that no problem exists is false, but on the other hand this isn't what I want to spend my time doing. I wasn't raised in a predominantly black city or neighborhood and my mother taught me to treat everyone the same. Sorry, I don't have a count of how many white friends I have because (to me) that would be an indication of a problem AND they are friends like everyone else.
Maybe conversations like this could be reduced if we just asked questions first and make statements about concerns outside our demographic later.
Uh, what country are you living in? I can see how you may not understand this, but no we don't all have a chance. For every Obama, Bob Johnson, Johnny Cochran, etc. there are probably tens of thousands who could not do whatever they want.
Two examples. In the Air Force, it is often discussed how a black man can make it to E7, but most stop there. You know why? Because making E8 and E9 involve board scores - someone forming their own opinion or having their opinion formed by someone calling in a favor.
Example two. There are many black and minority college basketball officials across the country - I've met many of them personally. You will not see them on TV every Saturday because many conferences have an unwritten quota. Also, I have had people (who don't know each other) talk about someone being a "bald, angry black man" and how coaches are intimidated by them. This isn't just me and my experience; this is happening to my friends and other black and Asian officials I know. Oh, and guess who makes up most of those college players you see on TV every Saturday during the season?
Conversations like this are starting to weigh heavily on me. On one hand, I feel like I have to speak up because the idea that no problem exists is false, but on the other hand this isn't what I want to spend my time doing. I wasn't raised in a predominantly black city or neighborhood and my mother taught me to treat everyone the same. Sorry, I don't have a count of how many white friends I have because (to me) that would be an indication of a problem AND they are friends like everyone else.
Maybe conversations like this could be reduced if we just asked questions first and make statements about concerns outside our demographic later.
DollyFan - 7/26/09 @ 9:37 AM:
Ally | Side B
Of course, racial profiling never entered your mind. A black officer checking out a white lady climbing in a window is an open invitation to ask for ID. There is no way for that to ever be thought of as racial profiling. Black officers do not automatically think a white person is guilty. BUT, there have been many incidents where a white officer automatically thinks a black man is guilty.
I do agree that people that get a "hot head" should still be held responsible for their reactions and that responsibilty for ourselves is dying in America. Always looking for someone else to blame.
I do agree that people that get a "hot head" should still be held responsible for their reactions and that responsibilty for ourselves is dying in America. Always looking for someone else to blame.
Side A Comment
mama kaz - 7/25/09 @ 4:07 PM:
One time I locked myself out of our house when we lived on a busy street in California. A police officer saw me climbing in my window and asked me for ID and an explanation. The first thing I said to him was, "wow. Thanks for stopping by to check this out." I then politely showed my ID and my appreciation once again. It made me feel good to know if a police officer saw someone climbing in my window that he would stop and ask questions. I didn't give him attitude or refuse to come back out of the house when he asked me to. He was a black police officer but racial profiling never entered my mind. The president showed his arrogance once again and he needs to stop making these kind of comments and mistakes because it is going to lead to racial unrest in this country. I agree that some people might react with a hot head to a situation like this but when they do they had better be ready to suffer the consequences. Personal responsibility is dying in this country.
DollyFan - 7/26/09 @ 9:46 AM:
Rival | Side B
Of course, racial profiling never entered your mind. A black officer checking out a white lady climbing in a window is an open invitation to ask for ID. There is no way for that to ever be thought of as racial profiling. Black officers do not automatically think a white person is guilty. BUT, there have been many incidents where a white officer automatically thinks a black man is guilty.
I do agree that people that get a "hot head" should still be held responsible for their reactions and that responsibilty for ourselves is dying in America. Always looking for someone else to blame.
Sorry about the other identical reply. I accidentally replied to Jeff instead of mama kaz. Excuse the error.
I do agree that people that get a "hot head" should still be held responsible for their reactions and that responsibilty for ourselves is dying in America. Always looking for someone else to blame.
Sorry about the other identical reply. I accidentally replied to Jeff instead of mama kaz. Excuse the error.
Tomegun - 7/28/09 @ 1:18 AM:
Rival | Side B
Uh, Mama Kaz what country have you been living in? There is already racial unrest! People just don't want to talk about it and deal with it. Ironically, when the head of the country is black, then he could be the cause for racial unrest.
But we need to back this thing up a bit, because he is only half black. We need look no further than that right there. In this country, if someone is part black, for all intents and purposes, they are black.
I'm not pointing any fingers at you in particularly, but we have to call it like we see it. I will be the first to admit that there are black people who are racist, ignorant and are embarassments to the human race. But it seems like any sign of racial unrest is met with "they are just playing the race card." The race card is in the deck and it wasn't put there for no reason!
Oh, I think they should both apologize, but instead the officer trots out all the reasons why he isn't a racist as if he is keeping score. When someone keeps count, they are probably racist.
But we need to back this thing up a bit, because he is only half black. We need look no further than that right there. In this country, if someone is part black, for all intents and purposes, they are black.
I'm not pointing any fingers at you in particularly, but we have to call it like we see it. I will be the first to admit that there are black people who are racist, ignorant and are embarassments to the human race. But it seems like any sign of racial unrest is met with "they are just playing the race card." The race card is in the deck and it wasn't put there for no reason!
Oh, I think they should both apologize, but instead the officer trots out all the reasons why he isn't a racist as if he is keeping score. When someone keeps count, they are probably racist.
Side B Comment
DollyFan - 7/25/09 @ 3:31 PM:
A LOT of people say things before they are aware of the details of a situation. It's not just Obama. We've never had to deal with reporters frequently asking us questions that we weren't prepared for at the time, so we can't possibly imagine how hard that would be.
But, I also know you, Ryan. You would definitley be one to get a hot head if an officer wanted to arrest you for "breaking" into your own home. I would, too. So I'm sure the situation wouldn't be that great for us, even as white folks. I stand by my decision that both should apologize and move on.
But, I also know you, Ryan. You would definitley be one to get a hot head if an officer wanted to arrest you for "breaking" into your own home. I would, too. So I'm sure the situation wouldn't be that great for us, even as white folks. I stand by my decision that both should apologize and move on.
The Boss - 7/25/09 @ 4:31 PM:
Rival | Side A
First thing. The cop was doing his job and did nothing wrong. I do indeed have a hot head but I would certainly hear the cop out and wouldn't refuse to answer his questions. If I had answered his questions, supplied positive id, and the cop was still giving me a hard time then I might get upset. Again, he was doing his job. The cop owes no one an apology. Obama on the other hand absolutely owes an apology. And to clarify, he wasn't arrested for breaking into his own home he was arrested for disruptive behavior. (I believe that was the charge.)
Regardless of how hard it would be to answer questions from the press me and you would have no problem admitting we made a mistake and apologizing for it. Obama has no problem apologizing for America everywhere he goes yet he can't apologize to civil servant?
Regardless of how hard it would be to answer questions from the press me and you would have no problem admitting we made a mistake and apologizing for it. Obama has no problem apologizing for America everywhere he goes yet he can't apologize to civil servant?
DollyFan - 7/26/09 @ 9:44 AM:
Ally | Side B
Any police officer should be able to see that someone getting accused of breaking into his own home could get a little irate. Once the homeonwer showed his ID the officer should have helped diffuse the situation, seeing that the call-in was a mistake. Some police officers just think they are too powerful and would never consider backing down to say that they were wrong. I'm not saying the homeowner might have taken too long to show his ID but a good officer would have been able to calm things down and end the situation without an arrest. And believe me, I'm not saying this is a perfect world and that no mistakes are made.
Of course, none of us were there to really see how things happened. But, again, I think both sides should apologize and take responsibilty for their mistakes.
And I do have to say, that I'm not sure I've seen anyplace where you've made a single good comment about Obama, in any of the rivalries, so I have to wonder if part of your problem with this occurrence is just because it was Obama.
Of course, none of us were there to really see how things happened. But, again, I think both sides should apologize and take responsibilty for their mistakes.
And I do have to say, that I'm not sure I've seen anyplace where you've made a single good comment about Obama, in any of the rivalries, so I have to wonder if part of your problem with this occurrence is just because it was Obama.
The Boss - 7/26/09 @ 11:03 AM:
Rival | Side A
FYI,
"In fact, Crowley taught a racial profiling course at the Lowell Police Academy, said Deborah Friedl, deputy superintendent of the police department.
Last year was his fifth year as a co-instructor of the course, Friedl said.
"He seems to be a highly regarded £instructor at the academy. He consistently received high praise from students," she said."(CNN Source:) http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/officer.gates.arrest/index.html
"CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) — A black police officer who was at Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s home when the black Harvard scholar was arrested says he fully supports how his white fellow officer handled the situation." (Chicago Tribune Source: Broken Link Now )
For anyone, even an Obama supporter to deny just how ignorant it was of the President to call the actions of the Officer "Stupidly" without knowing the facts. (Which he admitted)
In regards to Obama being my problem with this occurrence is rubbish. It's a prime time story that's in the spotlight because of Obama's ignorant comment but if it had been a story I'd heard of else where I'd be interested in it as well. However it was the President and his ignorant comment that brought this all to the forefront.
The only time I can remember that I've complimented Obama is when he gave to the order to shoot at will to the navy seals who saved the captain out at sea. Other than that Obama has been on a one way track of destroying our country one bill at a time so there is very little to compliment the man on.
This is just for you, here are a couple of compliments: Mr. Obama, you're a nice looking man who is very well spoken. You have a nice looking family. Mr. Obama your approval ratings are dropping because people are realizing what you're doing to our country. Oh wait...That last one isn't a compliment.
"In fact, Crowley taught a racial profiling course at the Lowell Police Academy, said Deborah Friedl, deputy superintendent of the police department.
Last year was his fifth year as a co-instructor of the course, Friedl said.
"He seems to be a highly regarded £instructor at the academy. He consistently received high praise from students," she said."(CNN Source:) http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/officer.gates.arrest/index.html
"CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) — A black police officer who was at Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s home when the black Harvard scholar was arrested says he fully supports how his white fellow officer handled the situation." (Chicago Tribune Source: Broken Link Now )
For anyone, even an Obama supporter to deny just how ignorant it was of the President to call the actions of the Officer "Stupidly" without knowing the facts. (Which he admitted)
In regards to Obama being my problem with this occurrence is rubbish. It's a prime time story that's in the spotlight because of Obama's ignorant comment but if it had been a story I'd heard of else where I'd be interested in it as well. However it was the President and his ignorant comment that brought this all to the forefront.
The only time I can remember that I've complimented Obama is when he gave to the order to shoot at will to the navy seals who saved the captain out at sea. Other than that Obama has been on a one way track of destroying our country one bill at a time so there is very little to compliment the man on.
This is just for you, here are a couple of compliments: Mr. Obama, you're a nice looking man who is very well spoken. You have a nice looking family. Mr. Obama your approval ratings are dropping because people are realizing what you're doing to our country. Oh wait...That last one isn't a compliment.
Side B Comment
DollyFan - 7/25/09 @ 8:00 AM:
Sorry. I didn't realize we couldn't use the word p-i-s-s-e-d.
Side B Comment
DollyFan - 7/25/09 @ 7:59 AM:
BOTH sides should apoligize. Arresting a man that has shown ID, so they did know that he lived there, is not right. And any one of US would be @%%$@%# if we were the ones in the situation. President Obama should have made a comment about the police arrested the man because the situation got out of hand and should not have used the word "stupidly".
These days people seem to usually think that only one side needs to apologize and that only one side can be right. Both sides were wrong (in my opinion) and so both should apologize.
These days people seem to usually think that only one side needs to apologize and that only one side can be right. Both sides were wrong (in my opinion) and so both should apologize.
The Boss - 7/25/09 @ 12:12 PM:
Rival | Side A
This doesn't happen often but I have to STRONGLY disagree with you on this one.
An officer is responding to a call where two men with back packs are breaking into a home. I've heard interviews with both parties and Mr. Gates refused to answer a very pertinent question before he showed identification. He was asked if he was alone in the house. Why would the officer need that information? Well, he's responding to two men breaking into a home.
Here are just a couple of the things that might have been running through the officers head: Where's the other guy? Is this home owner or is he trying to mislead me? Does this guy have a weapon? If he is the home owner why is he so angry? Are the assailants in the other room and he doesn't know about them?
What we have in this situation is two ego's going head to head. An "Elitist" and a "Power" ego. I have a much greater understanding of the "power" ego as it actually plays a role in keeping the officer safe on a daily basis.
In regards to Obama, he absolutely owes the officer and police force a sincere apology. He admitted immediately before spewing out "stupidly" that he didn't know the details of situation. So just how ignorant can a person be?
An officer is responding to a call where two men with back packs are breaking into a home. I've heard interviews with both parties and Mr. Gates refused to answer a very pertinent question before he showed identification. He was asked if he was alone in the house. Why would the officer need that information? Well, he's responding to two men breaking into a home.
Here are just a couple of the things that might have been running through the officers head: Where's the other guy? Is this home owner or is he trying to mislead me? Does this guy have a weapon? If he is the home owner why is he so angry? Are the assailants in the other room and he doesn't know about them?
What we have in this situation is two ego's going head to head. An "Elitist" and a "Power" ego. I have a much greater understanding of the "power" ego as it actually plays a role in keeping the officer safe on a daily basis.
In regards to Obama, he absolutely owes the officer and police force a sincere apology. He admitted immediately before spewing out "stupidly" that he didn't know the details of situation. So just how ignorant can a person be?
