Forgive me, but I've been extremely busy the last couple of weeks. I know my responses have been somewhat sporadic regarding time. I'll begin with taking issue with your very first statement.

Exactly how can the first century CE be so well documented if a great deal of the documents were destroyed by "christians"? Second, why would the "christians" be the people destroying the documents when so many of them would have proven the existence of the historical Jesus. I wish to see your so-called research because so far none of your arguments have made much of an argument except to prove how contradictory you are. Honestly, you state one thing, and then completely backtrack with the very next sentence. I have offered several citations and websites. To date you have offered exactly... ...none. You state that you have researched this particular subject for over 3 years, but as far as the evidence you can provide for such research, it leaves much less to be desired.

Your "motive" is quite apparent in your every attempt to prove one thing while showing no proof as to your own belief other than the lack of it. In fact, the only thing you've managed to prove to me is that you honestly don't know what you believe.

The first century CE is very well documented and a great deal of the documents that were destroyed were destroyed by Christians as "heretical". So we are right back where we started. There is no physical or contemporary evidence that Jesus existed. Not sure what it is that you want to see of my research. I have read many books on the subject,from both sides of the argument, listened to many debates and lectures, countless websites and shoe boxes full of little notebooks and post it notes that I will some day compile....Yeah right :~)

My "Motive" is nothing more than to question what people base their belief on. I set out to find any proof of the man depicted in the bible and have yet to find anything compelling. Were there men named "Jesus" in the first century? Probably thousands, as Yeshua/Yehoshuah was a very common Jewish name. Were there men claiming to be the messiah/king of the Jews at that time? Many. Can we select a single individual and attribute all that is said about Jesus to him? No.

As you research various aspects of this elusive character you will find that much of what is said about him had been said about others that predate Jesus, much of what he is alleged to have said had been said by others, in short, a theme begins to surface....I'm ranting and I need to get ready for work.

Your evidence presented actually proves less than nothing Donk. Much of that period was never recorded. It's of no historical or empirical proof that next to nothing was recorded concerning Jesus considering the fact that much of that age was either never recorded or has unfortunately been lost or destroyed since. Lack of evidence neither proves nor disproves Jesus' existence. I question your motive though concerning this entire thread. If you asked the question, then surely you believe you have some proof as to your point. I have offered several links and citations regarding what is believed by both historical and scientific communities to be evidence of at least the existence of the "man" Jesus. Thus far you have offered no evidence or suggestions as to the invalidity of the existence of this man, though I have asked for it at least twice. Once again I will ask for the proof of this 3+ years of research you have completed. If you have any I would like to see it. Believe me when I tell you I am a very open-minded person. I would just like to see this research you speak of, if you don't mind sharing.

For all that has been claimed for Jesus, all his miracles, his confrontations with Jewish officials,his fame "far and wide"(now being downplayed by apologists)earthquakes ,dead men walking the streets etc. etc. Not a single writer during the time of the events bothered recording any of it.

Not Philo
Not Seneca
Not Plutarch
Not Justus
Not Damis
Not Pliny the Elder......


Pliny the Younger (61-111 CE)
Suetonius(75-150CE)
Josephus (37-c.100 CE)

Simply put, there is no excuse for this man's behavior. Violence almost always begets more violence. If he had intended to make a statement, or otherwise bring to light corruption within his own police department there were certainly more peaceable means with which to do so. He was a monster at best, and at worst a coward of the highest order.

You would have thought after the elections at both the state and national levels that Republicans would have learned a very valuable lesson. If they lose the majority of their seats in 2014 effectively handing the majority back to the Democrats they have only themselves to blame. Just as the American government will not negotiate with terrorists, neither will the American people negotiate or support those who hold our government hostage simply for the sake of their own gain.

Though I know at some point President Obama may compromise in order to bring a solution to this problem I sincerely hope he heeds the warnings within in his own party. If he agrees to cut any part of Social Security in order to reach an agreement he will lose some of my support. Social Security does not add to our deficit, and should never be used as a bargaining chip with the likes of Boehner, Cantor, or Ryan. I will be highly disappointed if he uses such a method.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/cepr-blog/factcheck-gets-it-wrong-on-social-security-and-the-deficit

Significant cuts must be made and contrary to fallible Republican public opinion taxes must be raised in order to solve the deficit issue. You cannot logically expect to reduce a deficit without raising revenue to pay it down. Common sense. How this seemingly escapes so many bewilders me to the point of both discontent and disbelief.

Not quite yet. Been a little busy lately. I apologize. So, you appear to be a little smarter than the average bear. You didn't fall for my trick. Good. Still, you haven't provided any evidence of his non-existence. Here's a few links you might be interested in. Let me know what you think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliny_the_Younger#Epistle_concerning_the_Christian_Religion

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suetonius#The_Great_Fire_and_the_Christiani

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus#Tacitus_on_Christ

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#The_three_passages

Though I have found several documents and entries that support the existence of Jesus I have not come across any historical documents or otherwise citations that deny his existence, or for that matter attempt to denounce his existence with anything other than doubtful opinions. If you have any such proof I would appreciate receiving the links so that I might read it or them, as the case may be. Thanks.

Are we done?

Just got home from work and I am beat!! I won't be able to respond to your entire post til later but....

The Archko Volume?.....Again? I thought this one was put to rest years ago. I suggest you research this book, the author William Dennes Mahan and his subsequent punishment by the church for producing this utter fabrication of "facts".

I am afraid you are mistaken. It's okay. After all, you're only human. Below I will include a couple of links showing the document written to the Roman Senate by Herod Antipas begging for clemency concerning his actions before the Empire. You may not be trying to prove Jesus did not exist, but clearly there is documented evidence of his existence, and not just in the printed word of the Bible. Regarding uniqueness, please describe any other religious messiah whose story even comes close to mimicking that of Jesus'.

http://www.paradisepbc.org/Articles/Secular%20History/Historical%20Court%20Records%20of%20Christ%20Chpt%2010.htm

http://www.bibleprobe.com/antipas.htm

Other than the the document in question,the bible, we have no evidence that Jesus ever existed.

"factual and historical references that can be cited."

"This is noted in many historical documents written by the Roman courts"
Please share, I know of no such documents.

My questioning of the "Uniqueness" of Jesus' story is based on the fact that there are many messianic claims and the Birth,miracles,death and resurrection stories are a common theme among religions.

I am not trying to prove Jesus never existed, I am trying to understand why people believe he existed. I went for many years simply assuming he did, I have no problem with it being proven that he did.

My "faith" goes a little further in this instance rather than just belief. There is factual and historical references that can be cited. You are aware of this, right? Pontius Pilate, the fifth prefect of the Roman Empire under the rule of Emperor Tiberius was the judge at the court of the proceedings involving Jesus Christ's alleged treasonous acts. He found Jesus guilty of treason and sentenced him to death, hence the crucifixion. If Pilate simply wanted Jesus to disappear and never be entered into any record why did he insist on trying him? Instead he tried him and found him guilty. This is noted in many historical documents written by the Roman courts. It was also recorded as such during the Council of Nicea, and in the Holy Bible as well. Don't you find it strange that his presence was mentioned by three separate proceedings/documentations? I would have expected that someone who had done so much research concerning disproving the existence of a person would have considered also researching the documents that do in fact corroborate his existence. I am afraid I also have to disagree with the "his story is far from unique" comment. What other man claiming to be the son of God have you ever known to have been tried, sentenced, and put to death for the crime of teaching love and tolerance to the masses by the Roman Empire? None come to mind. I would dare to call that somewhat unique.