The Libertarian Party

Rivalry Side A | Politics | Parties

The Tea Party

Rivalry Side B | Politics | Parties

Most of the members of either party that I have ever known contradict several of their party's policies and mission statements. Do either have a clear platform or voter base?

Posted by in Politics / Parties on 3/20/12
Debate Leaders
  1. The Boss (5 votes)
  1. Jeff (2 votes)

Side A fans: (2)

Neutral Fans: (2)


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Neutral Comment

LIBERAL - 8/29/12 @ 8:07 PM:
1
Well, actually Ryan the whole Voter ID was just one of many problems. Really the video was to address feelings about the Tea Party, but where Voter ID laws are concerned I happen to agree with the fake news anchor's views. The reality of the situation is this, if most of the voter ID laws being enacted were not violations or discriminatory then why do U.S. and Federal courts keep striking them down as such? In Pennsylvania one republican politician even admitted while being filmed that these types of laws would help to ensure Romney wins that state. It doesn't take much of a scholar to figure out exactly what he meant. Let's be realistic. Florida, South Carolina, and Texas have all recently lost their battles in federal courts which found these laws to be discriminatory in reference to partisanship and in some cases racially motivated. I'm sorry, but that's just not right. In Texas the Federal court even found the redistricting unconstitutional because it heavily favored republicans and discriminated specifically against hispanic voters. If it were just one or two cases I wouldn't be so upset, but it seems to be happening nationwide, and it's not right. Voter fraud is so rare that you are more likely to be struck by lightning than for a case of voter fraud to occur. Seriously, "The analysis of 2,068 reported fraud cases by News21, a Carnegie-Knight investigative reporting project, found 10 cases of alleged in-person voter impersonation since 2000. With 146 million registered voters in the United States, those represent about one for every 15 million prospective voters. The analysis found that there is more alleged fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than in any of the other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of alleged absentee-ballot fraud and 400 cases involving registration fraud. Requiring voters to show identification at the polls -- the crux of most of the new legislation -- would not have prevented those cases." These are direct words from a news organization in ARIZONA!

Legal American citizens have been voting for over 2 centuries without need for voter fraud laws because they are unnecessary. Why the sudden need for them? Well, I suppose if you don't want to run a campaign on a strong platform the best way to ensure a win is to make certain those who probably wouldn't vote for you in the first place don't vote at all.

Neutral Comment

LIBERAL - 8/29/12 @ 2:04 AM:
1
This is exactly the reason why any true Republican should never call a member of the Tea Party a fellow conservative. Tea Party members do not get to call themselves the party of reason. They should be called exactly what they are. The American Taliban. Those who think they are Tea Party members, but don't understand what the true platform behind the Tea Party stands for should take a step back and take a long look at what they really represent.

http://www.upworthy.com/everything-wrong-with-the-tea-party-in-less-than-two-minutes
The Boss - 8/29/12 @ 5:57 PM: Rival | Side A
0
Was that Jane Fonda at the end of that? Enough said.
The Boss - 8/29/12 @ 6:54 PM: Rival | Side A
0
For informational purposes the following is the groups of people not required to present id.(Tennessee)

Voters who vote absentee by mail (view requirements here)
Voters who are residents of a licensed nursing home or assisted living center and who vote at the facility
Voters who are hospitalized
Voters with a religious objection to being photographed
Voters who are indigent and unable to obtain a photo ID without paying a fee
Source: http://www.tn.gov/sos/election/photoID.htm

In regards to the voter id portion of this video I have a couple of things to say:

When I first moved to Tennessee (8 or so years ago) I had to get a TN drivers license. In order to do so I had to present two forms of identification. One was my birth certificate while the other could have been a number of other options including a voter registration card.

This was absolutely absurd for a number of reasons but primarily because I couldn't use a utility bill or any other form of mailings with my name and address on it to get my license. Guess what was required to register to vote? You guessed it, any mailing that had my name and address on it; that and my word that I legally qualified to vote. If that isn't a broke system then I don't know what is. I've already expressed my opinion on the voter id requirements in another rivalry so I won't elaborate into that any further but if I get some time I will dissect this VERY biased video a bit.

I do believe it said the unfortunate senior citizen who had her vote supposedly suppressed was 96. I'd be curious to know if she resides in an assisted living community and hence should have been allowed to vote.
The Boss - 8/30/12 @ 7:07 PM: Rival | Side A
0
"The Taliban set out to create the world’s most pure Islamic regime by introducing a disturbing and deeply revolutionary form of Muslim culture that came at a tremendous cost to human freedom. Men were ordered to keep their beards to a specific length, and subjected to punishment for defiance. Members of minority groups wore labels to distinguish them as non-Muslims, a measure the Taliban argued was to protect them from religious police enforcing Islamic law. Frivolities such as television, the Internet, music, and photography were outlawed. Punishments including amputation of the hands of thieves and the stoning to death of women convicted of adultery, considered severe by European standards, were common under the Taliban.

It was the Taliban’s anti-woman agenda, however, that caused mounting concern around the world. Under the Taliban women were forbidden to work outside the home, were compelled to wear a head-to-toe covering known as a burka, and could not leave the home without a male guardian. Such issues, along with restrictions on women’s access to health and education, caused resentments among ordinary Afghans and drew the ire of the international community. To the Taliban, however, the restrictions served to preserve the honor and dignity of women who had previously been preyed upon.

Despite their strict beliefs and anti-drug profile, the Taliban could not resist using opium to fund its activities, underlining the movement’s poor understanding and interpretation of Islamic law. Though the Taliban leaders led an austere life in contrast to the ostentatious lifestyle of the mujahideen warlords, their economic policy was left in the hands of chance and fate, culminating in Afghanistan’s slide into economic backwardness."

Source: http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Taliban.aspx

Why did I post this?

Simple, to highlight the wonderful hypocrisy of the left. The left throws a fit anytime someone compares or holds signs portraying Obama as Hitler and I actually agree that it's a bit ridiculous to portray Obama as the former dictator / murderer but why is it okay for the left to do the same to the Tea Party? The Taliban is a viscous sect of Muslims that believe in stoning women to death for committing adultery, cutting the hands off of thieves, etc... This is extreme just as is murdering Jews because they were Jews. I'm sick of the hypocrisy folks. As I have time I will continue to tear this video apart for what it is; Hollywood Liberal propaganda full of misleading slander.
LIBERAL - 9/1/12 @ 1:58 AM: Ally | Neutral
0
There is absolutely no hypocrisy here Ryan, and you should know better. Where comparisons have been made between Hitler and any U.S. President, whether Bush or Obama is outlandish and ridiculous to say the least. Neither Bush nor Obama have set about a Jewish genocide. Neither of them called for a coalition between super powers to essentially invade and take over most of the world's countries. That being said, there are many comparisons made between the Taliban and the Tea Party which are in fact VERY similar in nature. Both wish to restrict and control the rights of women, whether it is the right to work (equal pay for equal work) or the repression of health services ie. birth control and contraceptives, they clearly believe that the repression of women's rights are religiously based. Whether it is the Holy Bible or the Qur'an it makes no apparent difference. The same can be said of their views on homosexuality ie. same-sex marriage, unions, partnerships, or domestic policies. They both subscribe to using religion as a basis for government ruling whether it is federal or state. Often times many of the Tea Party's representatives, leaders, and politicians have stated that they believe this is a Christian nation. Which it is not. Almost every single founding father refutes these ideologies by stating exactly the opposite. Many of their forefathers having fled to the colonies exactly to escape religious persecution established the American government in order to be free FROM religious zealots. While they believed in freedom of religion, the right to practice it, they also believed in freedom from religion in order to ensure Americans never had to deal with this kind of persecution in the future. Hence, separation of church and state. Scream that aloud at a Tea Party rally and see what happens. I have been to several of their rallys and have witnessed on MANY occassions racial, bigoted, and homophobic slurs that would have made you blush. A West Texas judge, that's right, JUDGE stated that should Obama be elected there would be civil war. I've heard the cry many times at these rallys for Texas to secede. It is preposterous and seditious statements like this that make Tea Party members look so un-American.

Too many Tea Party politicians in Texas and other states are responsible for the recent voter ID laws and county redistricting. All have been struck down in Ohio and Texas for their clearly racial discriminatory methods. Of course those here in Texas were meant to discriminate against Hispanics. Hispanics, which by the way, were LEGAL citizens of the state of Texas and LEGAL citizens of the United States.

When the Tea Party as a whole stops using such radical discriminatory and bigoted ideologies to promote its supposed idea of "freedom" to indoctrinate the minds of its followers then I'll not refer to them as what they really are... ...the American Taliban.

Side A Comment

Jeff - 7/22/12 @ 10:29 PM:
1
I agree with you Ryan minimal government while acknowledging that some government is a necessity I just believe they don't have to have their dirty little hands in everything they have lost sight what the true meaning of the Constitution stands for.

Side A Comment

Jeff - 4/15/12 @ 10:18 PM:
1
Libertarian all the way Im even a memeber of the Libertarian party of TN

Neutral Comment

lynx55 - 3/26/12 @ 4:10 PM:
-9
Neither one. The Progressive Liberal Dems.

Okay, after the EMT's finished hauling off the heart attack and stroke victims and the rest of you recover your ability for speech again, please realize there actually ARE liberals on this site who would greatly appreciate subjects dealing with something WE may share some values with.

Thank you and NO I am not trying to incite a riot nor a conversation, NOR will I respond. Just stating a viewpoint and moving on.

Thank you for the opportunity to do so. Have a great day from the left side of the planet.

Lyn
The Boss - 3/26/12 @ 9:23 PM: Rival | Side A
0
FYI, a fellow liberal started this rivalry.

Also, if you want to start rivalries about topics that relate to progressive topics you ARE more than welcomed to do so. We could even have a Woodrow Wilson Week; in progressives honor. ;) I'm just saying.
LIBERAL - 3/26/12 @ 11:12 PM: Ally | Neutral
-3
Hello lynx55. My name is Rick. I started this rivalry to see and hear comments on both sides of the spectrum because I am by nature a very curious person. I also like to be more informed on other's opinions and ideas. I have read many articles on both parties and even attended several meetings as well, but I started this rivalry to see what individuals thought of their own party's ideologies and framework.

Now, don't have a heart attack, because I am currently without a defribillator. I am a staunch liberal with very progressive ideals. Just read my profile if you wish. You can even friend me if you'd like. I don't mind what party you belong to. It's not a determining factor for me when I like someone.

I just simply like to see every side of an issue, party, problem, etc. in order to be fully informed. Thanks for responding though. It was nice to see I'm not the only one.

Neutral Comment

LIBERAL - 3/20/12 @ 9:29 PM:
-2
Well, actually I recently attended the Henderson County Tea Party meeting that was held on March 9th. I was surprised by the number of people that had level heads, but they were unfortunately marred by the two or three people that insisted on making every argument about God and race. By the way, I was one of only 16 people at the meeting. That excludes the speaker that was present along with his family.

I try to get every view point I can. Thank you for the suggestion. I tried looking up a liberatarian meeting in the area, but to no avail. The closest meeting of that party was in Murchison near Dallas.

That's the one I really wanted to attend, but wasn't available at the time.
The Boss - 3/20/12 @ 9:32 PM: Rival | Side A
0
I applaud for doing so and am surprised so many people made any mention of race. My experiences have been completely different.

Neutral Comment

LIBERAL - 3/20/12 @ 7:14 PM:
-2
Well, while I agree with a lot of what you stated Ryan I noticed for example that every site I visited, democratic, republican, tea party, and libertarian that the Tea Party was the most difficult to assess simply because you have to state that you agree with all of their policies and referendum in order to be approved for membership. Otherwise you have VERY limited access. It just begs the question. Why? What does this political party have to hide? And why is it necessary to agree with every single political view in order to be approved. I stated that I did not by the way. I only want to learn more about the parties, but it seems as if they have a problem with anyone who doesn't totally agree with their views. How can you move forward on any issue when you are seemingly so opposed to compromise in any form? This is just my take on my experience thus far. If you have any opinions or views please share. Thanks.
The Boss - 3/20/12 @ 9:04 PM: Rival | Side A
2
If you really want to know what they're all about Rick and I'm not saying this in a smart allec way; go to a rally. Seriously, go covert or go politics wide open. I went to an event in DC where Tea Party participants were obnoxiously mocked at every block and while it was irritating as all hell no one of the 100 plus thousand people reacted violently. I'm just saying that may be the only way you get a true feel for what the movement is about.

While I consider myself a part of the movement I do not associate myself with any one group and have never looked at any enrollment requirements to do so. If it says anything I don't agree with every single item the groups stand for and even when I've challenged fellow tea partiers I've not been harassed or asked to leave. I go as I am and support what I believe in and I know there are a lot of tea party members that share that view, not all of them obviously but a good number.

Neutral Comment

LIBERAL - 3/20/12 @ 5:37 PM:
-2
To be totally honest and fair to any members of this website I want to clarify that I do not claim to everything about either party. I have however, visited both American websites and read both mission statements and policies as decided by party leaders. Here's some of what I have found, though it does not in any way conclude how every member feels. This is just what I have learned from visiting both sites and my interactions with party members in the past.

TEA PARTY:
The main theme of the American Tea Party apparently seems to be the motto which includes its name, Taxed Enough Already, which is to say they believe in lower taxes. They also believe in downsizing the government. Another theme also seems to be gun control. While I will try not to label anyone in the Tea Party as a "conservative", they do seems to exhibit quite a few of their traits. Almost every site I have visited concerning Tea Party protests show signs of disdain toward the current government, gun control issues, big government, and of course some racial and social issues. While I understand never to judge a book by its cover or that a few rotten apples shouldn't spoil the whole bunch it seems there are a lot who believe it is okay to use the "n" word and that God hates !#?$ Now, I am not proposing that every Tea Party member feels this way, but it seems like the majority do in fact encompass this belief or else it would not be so prevalent among the party. Let me clarify that the American Tea Party site does state that it does not believe in racism, and in fact does not condone it on any level, but if this is the case why does it seem as though such a very large part of their base does? If you are a Tea Party member I would like to hear your feedback.

Libertarian Party:
This seems to be the most confusing party of them all. I just don't understand how a group that claims to love the Constitution and all that it stands for, but completely contradicts most of its foundations. I mean the very beginning of the Constitution itself lays out the foundation and intent to form a governing body, yet most Libertarians claim they want less government. You want things to get fixed, but you just don't want it to be the government that does it. Or at least not the Federal government. From best I can tell the Libertarians believe in a more conservative side where the economy is concerned, but a more liberal approach where social issues are concerned. Yet it is funny that most Libertarians I've met have no problem with labeling people as %$*#@ How exactly does this party work? I'm not sure. Just looking for opinions. Let me know how you feel about these issues. I welcome any comments.
The Boss - 3/20/12 @ 6:03 PM: Rival | Side A
1
While I haven't read the mission statements I will offer my opinion on it. From my perspective, libertarians are pretty straightforward in their beliefs.

They believe in minimal government while acknowledging that some government is a necessity or they would be damn near anarchists. Both the Tea Party and libertarians (generalizing, some small minority might) believe the Government is the source of the problem and not the solution to our problems.

Just by looking at Ron Paul you can see he certainly looks very conservative anytime fiscal policy is discussed but where his true libertarian roots show up is his foreign policy.

(Generalizing) Libertarians and a small minority in the Tea Party believe the Governments primary responsibility is to defend the Borders and not proactively nation build.

That's where I sway away from the conservatives as I'm frankly sick of the wars, the deceased men and women in uniform, and the ridiculous amount of money being spent, printed, and borrowed to fund these never ending wars. It would seem a lot of conservatives want to pretend President Bush did everything right when were blatantly lied to about WMD which I as one of the gullible Americans admit to being wrong at the time.

Is isolationism the answer as Ron Paul would advocate I'm not convinced but I would much rather give a less aggressive approach to foreign policy a try.

(Generalizing) I would believe that libertarians and tea party members would agree on the idea the the federal government has greatly misinterpreted the commerce clause which has been the master key to opening the doors to all of the big governments intrusions.

In regards to the racism within the tea party; as previously mentioned I have been to several rallies and can say there is a very small (probably 1%) of the attendees that are dumb redneck trash that blurt out stupid ass comments that have the majority of those attending shaking their heads in disgust.

I can think of one such redneck twenty something gal that shouted out this is America not Amexico. I remember thinking someone please gag this !?*@%$ Again this is a ultra small majority as I can attest that most of the people I have interacted with are very respectful, educated on all of the issues, and are there on their own dime and time.

Side A Comment

The Boss - 3/20/12 @ 5:30 PM:
2
Libertarians have a very solid voter base and a fairly universal platform, far more so than the tea party.

I've attended several tea party rallies and while there is a lot of common beliefs there is no universal platform. One group may support one candidate while the other may wholeheartedly oppose them.

The reality is though if any party, movement, or political organization agrees 100% with one another that is not a good thing. It's a lot like hearing an old married couple telling you they've been married for 60 years and they've never fought. The problem with that is the they are either lying through their teeth or one of them is a conforming pawn that has no voice. The same holds true for politics. If you're so wrapped around your political party and their rhetorical slander that you don't stop and think for yourself then how are you any better than the lying spouse or the pawn with no voice.

(Speaking Generally) You don't have to agree with me but at least think for yourself instead of letting your party think for you.



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